Comments on: Further notes on A Biblical Church http://pantheophany.wordpress.com/2008/07/24/further-notes-on-a-biblical-church/ God-watching, everywhere you look Wed, 22 Apr 2009 04:00:51 +0000 http://wordpress.com/ hourly 1 By: pantheophany http://pantheophany.wordpress.com/2008/07/24/further-notes-on-a-biblical-church/#comment-83 pantheophany Sun, 27 Jul 2008 16:07:18 +0000 http://pantheophany.wordpress.com/?p=78#comment-83 I am beginning with the premise of literal Biblical interpretation according to the stated faith of the <a href="http://www.sbc.net/bfm/bfm2000.asp" rel="nofollow">SBC</a> (of which I am most familiar), the <a href="http://www.tcojc.org/doctrine.htm" rel="nofollow">COJC</a> (which I have a growing interest in due to <a href="http://thechurchofjesuschrist.wordpress.com/" rel="nofollow">Polycarp's blog</a>), and other denominations which claim the Bible to be (a) literally true in all things that are not explicitly figurative, (b) morally correct in all things that are not explicitly the writer's opinion, and (c) eternally unchanging in meaning. These are independent concepts, and it's possible to have one or more without the others. I am focused on theologies that embrace all three in these essays. I've been formulating some thoughts on doctrines that do not include all three of these, and will probably address some of those in a response to <i>The Art of Reading Scripture</i> (which comments greatly on (c)). Given the premises above, I then am following what I believe to be an honest and faithful exploration of how the Bible instructs Christians to behave. I am not trying to cherry-pick "weird" verses as so many critics do. I am trying to do exactly what conservative Christians claim to be doing, but have generally failed at because of, I believe, preconceived notions of what the Bible "must" say and ignorance of what it actually does say. I believe that modern so-called "Biblical literalism" is a great threat to our society, but that true Biblical literalism is at worst be harmless and at best a constructive part of society by directly helping the same marginalized groups that Jesus focused his ministry on. And for those Christians for whom rational considerations may sway their beliefs, I hope to provide sufficient education in what Christianity actually says in order to allow them to rationally determine whether they are actually Christians or simply church-goers. It was a similar kind of education that changed my beliefs, and I believe in passing on the favor. As I mentioned, for those who do not agree with the premises I listed, this is somewhat irrelevant. But without accepting an infallible Scripture, I do not see how anyone could be non-apostolic and still "Christian." By "apostolic" I am referring to those groups who claim unbroken oral tradition from the Apostles (Roman Catholic, Eastern Orthodox, etc.) I'll explore this more later, but the point is that I don't believe one can "pick and choose" out of Christianity. I agree with the Fundamentalists here. It is either true or it is not true. I just don't think most modern fundamentalists are actually treating it as true. I am beginning with the premise of literal Biblical interpretation according to the stated faith of the SBC (of which I am most familiar), the COJC (which I have a growing interest in due to Polycarp’s blog), and other denominations which claim the Bible to be (a) literally true in all things that are not explicitly figurative, (b) morally correct in all things that are not explicitly the writer’s opinion, and (c) eternally unchanging in meaning. These are independent concepts, and it’s possible to have one or more without the others. I am focused on theologies that embrace all three in these essays. I’ve been formulating some thoughts on doctrines that do not include all three of these, and will probably address some of those in a response to The Art of Reading Scripture (which comments greatly on (c)).

Given the premises above, I then am following what I believe to be an honest and faithful exploration of how the Bible instructs Christians to behave. I am not trying to cherry-pick “weird” verses as so many critics do. I am trying to do exactly what conservative Christians claim to be doing, but have generally failed at because of, I believe, preconceived notions of what the Bible “must” say and ignorance of what it actually does say.

I believe that modern so-called “Biblical literalism” is a great threat to our society, but that true Biblical literalism is at worst be harmless and at best a constructive part of society by directly helping the same marginalized groups that Jesus focused his ministry on.

And for those Christians for whom rational considerations may sway their beliefs, I hope to provide sufficient education in what Christianity actually says in order to allow them to rationally determine whether they are actually Christians or simply church-goers. It was a similar kind of education that changed my beliefs, and I believe in passing on the favor.

As I mentioned, for those who do not agree with the premises I listed, this is somewhat irrelevant. But without accepting an infallible Scripture, I do not see how anyone could be non-apostolic and still “Christian.” By “apostolic” I am referring to those groups who claim unbroken oral tradition from the Apostles (Roman Catholic, Eastern Orthodox, etc.) I’ll explore this more later, but the point is that I don’t believe one can “pick and choose” out of Christianity. I agree with the Fundamentalists here. It is either true or it is not true. I just don’t think most modern fundamentalists are actually treating it as true.

]]> By: Steve http://pantheophany.wordpress.com/2008/07/24/further-notes-on-a-biblical-church/#comment-82 Steve Sun, 27 Jul 2008 14:58:54 +0000 http://pantheophany.wordpress.com/?p=78#comment-82 So out of curiosity, are you writing about the biblical church to advocate it or speak out against the concept? Or to point out what others should be doing if they were to do what they claim to be doing? So out of curiosity, are you writing about the biblical church to advocate it or speak out against the concept? Or to point out what others should be doing if they were to do what they claim to be doing?

]]> By: A Biblical Church « Pantheophany http://pantheophany.wordpress.com/2008/07/24/further-notes-on-a-biblical-church/#comment-81 A Biblical Church « Pantheophany Fri, 25 Jul 2008 15:55:58 +0000 http://pantheophany.wordpress.com/?p=78#comment-81 [...] Further Notes on A Biblical Church Possibly related posts: (automatically generated)Theological Hermeneutics IV — Exploring the StorySexual Orienation Discrimination Test CaseDr. Os Guinness: “The Climax of Jeremiah’s Stand” (Jeremiah 36) Archives [...] [...] Further Notes on A Biblical Church Possibly related posts: (automatically generated)Theological Hermeneutics IV — Exploring the StorySexual Orienation Discrimination Test CaseDr. Os Guinness: “The Climax of Jeremiah’s Stand” (Jeremiah 36) Archives [...]

]]> By: Pages tagged "people of the book" http://pantheophany.wordpress.com/2008/07/24/further-notes-on-a-biblical-church/#comment-80 Pages tagged "people of the book" Fri, 25 Jul 2008 04:43:04 +0000 http://pantheophany.wordpress.com/?p=78#comment-80 [...] bookmarks tagged people of the book Further notes on A Biblical Church saved by 5 others     SankaRattaTang bookmarked on 07/24/08 | [...] [...] bookmarks tagged people of the book Further notes on A Biblical Church saved by 5 others     SankaRattaTang bookmarked on 07/24/08 | [...]

]]> By: Polycarp http://pantheophany.wordpress.com/2008/07/24/further-notes-on-a-biblical-church/#comment-79 Polycarp Thu, 24 Jul 2008 19:23:07 +0000 http://pantheophany.wordpress.com/?p=78#comment-79 Pantheophany, thanks for the link. I do appreciate the exchange. Pantheophany, thanks for the link. I do appreciate the exchange.

]]> By: thenonconformer http://pantheophany.wordpress.com/2008/07/24/further-notes-on-a-biblical-church/#comment-77 thenonconformer Thu, 24 Jul 2008 15:05:35 +0000 http://pantheophany.wordpress.com/?p=78#comment-77 In A Biblical Church, I also do agree with note the community nature of the Church of Acts, as opposed to the Corporate churches like those run by many TV Evangelists, the Pentecostals, and the Christian Missionary Alliance included. Establishing the Biblical church.. following the New Testament pattern in the book of Acts.. one of my favorite topics.. but it cannot be done! Not without having the people, elders, pastors in the church first filled with, Baptized the Holy Spirit, and next also helping the poor people in their own church, instead of robbing, stealing from them.. http://pbulow.tripod.com/pastors.html In A Biblical Church, I also do agree with note the community nature of the Church of Acts, as opposed to the Corporate churches like those run by many TV Evangelists, the Pentecostals, and the Christian Missionary Alliance included.

Establishing the Biblical church.. following the New Testament pattern in the book of Acts.. one of my favorite topics.. but it cannot be done!

Not without having the people, elders, pastors in the church first filled with, Baptized the Holy Spirit, and next also helping the poor people in their own church, instead of robbing, stealing from them..

http://pbulow.tripod.com/pastors.html

]]>